Let’s talk 🙂

It needs to be said, because I’m getting tired of seeing it. Why Hate on this scene?

But this scene is okay?

Unless you don’t like this scene either than I have some news for you, you don’t hate bad writing, you hate DC

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:raised_hands::raised_hands: always been a a fan of BvS and I love that cap scene. I think people had really high expectations for it but all I wanted to see was a fight between my top two favorite superheroes and that’s what I got so I’m definitely not complaining :triumph:

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No shade but it’s not JUST those scenes specifically that had bad writing in either movie lol

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I loved bvs, it was my childhood coming to life. I got to see Batman beat the freak outta Superman

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i love DC :heart:
idk why they hate so much

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I do agree, but all I seen was hate for DC’s Martha and not Marvels Bucky

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That’s true. I think people are more quick to judge DC than Marvel bc DC doesn’t appeal to the audience as much when it comes to like how characters are written. Like DC is a little darker and people don’t usually like to see that when it comes to superheroes

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People just wanted to hate on BvS, and this scene gave them that hate on a silver platter. To them, it seemed too “convenient”, but if you actually watched the film, it’s where Superman is humanized to Batman. Either way, eff the haters - BvS is such a better film than people would like to give it credit for.

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I think Bvs was great and comic accurate, yet no ones taking that into consideration.

“Batman doesn’t kill!”

Actually if you read the comics you’d know that after Robin died Batman basically went on a murder spree, and bvs takes place not to long after the death of robin

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I’m a firm believer that DC was damned if they did, damned if they didn’t. They had such a rough time coming up to par with Marvel, not just in timing but also licking their wounds from forays like Green Lantern (which, for transparency, I thoroughly enjoy while also acknowledging the flaws; give Mark Strong a solo Sinestro film, pleaseandthankyou), that anything they did was going to be held under the Marvel miscroscope.

I’ve always viewed the whole “grimdark” slant as their way of trying to remain separate from Marvel; unfortunately, because Marvel had already built such a solid foothold in the genre, DC was criticized for its darker content. However, had DC gone the same route as Marvel, in going the adventurous, comedic route, I feel they would have gotten the “Simpsons did it” treatment. And, now that I think about it, the key reason why Shazam! was successful as a fun DC property was because by that time, Marvel had gotten into the darker aspects of the Infinity War saga. So, fun and adventurous works… but not in tandem.

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Oh, I’m with you - I actually prefer BvS over Civil War. And, to your point in another comment, it was childhood coming to life - Batman and Superman sharing the same screen, walloping on each other!

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And honestly DC has amazing lore if you watch the animated movies, that’s where DC actually thrives. Video games and animated, but recently DC is stepping up their movies too. Shazam, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, all great live action movies

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Their animated properties… [chef’s kiss]

I still need to get Red Son into my Blu-ray library, as it’s one of my favorite Elseworlds stories.

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Dude I just recently watched that and man, that was such a great movie. I want a revision to the red hood movie and crisis on two earths

Breaking to another medium, I really enjoyed what the TV shows were able to do with the Crisis storyline for their series. A lot of fun, mixing in the different properties and giving the '90s Flash its long-overdue series finale.

And back to animated, I wish they had done a little more with Flashpoint, but was not disappointed in what they were able to do with it.

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Well they kinda continued the flashpoint universe with the latest Arkham movie, reverse flash still had the bullet wound in his head lol

Lemme be clear by saying I didn’t want to hate on the movie (in fact, I don’t even hate it. Just wasn’t a fan of it really).

Now, a scenario like this really shouldn’t be slowing things down on either side’s part. To me, neither fight had a satisfying ending by just saying another character’s name. Almost feels like a cop out to me, even though each hero was visibly struggling.

With Endgame, young Cap had the choice of just not believing older Cap since he believed that he was Loki. But I guess his emotions got the better of him anyway. The same for BvS, as Bruce was hellbent on fighting and killing Clark so he could have chosen to just end right there and then. The kicker is that his person of significance mentioned is already dead. I think the scene would have had more impact if the name “Martha” wasn’t as common because this scene, at least to me, acts as if no one else has ever had that name. It can also be questioned why Clark decided to yell out “Martha” instead of “Mom”, which he had been calling her since Man of Steel. I used to think about why Clark even participated in the fight if his mother was in danger like that but he probably underestimated Bruce.

Anyway, that’s why the scene doesn’t work for me. I really don’t have much DC bias as most people tend to think I do (for example, Dark Knight and Shazam are golden). Cap’s scene is kinda dumb too honestly but it’s whatever.

See, that’s where you’re incorrect. The film clearly establishes that Bruce’s main guilt, his main drive all these years was that he didn’t save his parents - but most especially his mother, Martha. That’s the whole point of the opening scene, where the “flashback” turns out to be an actual nightmare that Bruce has been having ever since.

As for Superman calling his mother “Martha” instead of “Mom”… c’mon, man. Batman was hellbent on killing Superman because he was an alien threat; Clark simply saying “Mom” wasn’t going to get him anywhere because, in Batman’s eyes, all Superman was and everything connected to him, was going to be alien. So, “Save Mom”? Yeah, that’s just one less alien threat Batman would have to deal with.

Superman saying “Martha”, though, initially breaks Bruce because it’s a PTSD trigger - like fireworks to a war veteran. And it was only in that moment of breakage that Lois was able to come in and confirm that Superman was referring to his own mother. “Martha”, being a human name, further humanizes Superman to Batman and realigns the focal points of their individual goals.

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Oh okay, I see your point. I think one of the main problems that I have is that I wouldn’t know what having PTSD is like so I wouldn’t be able to fully sympathize with how Bruce would be feeling and it’s most likely why I was less empathetic at the theaters as well. However, it is common knowledge that Bruce has been driven by this trauma for years so I admit that I didn’t recall how much it meant to him.

You are right on the Clark thing, I was having extra thoughts on it.

The resolution was definitely something I don’t usually see all the time (between Bruce and Clark). It’s still a bit indifferent to me so I’ll have to rewatch but I understand the point better now.

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Don’t worry, I’ve had this same conversation with several people since both Man of Steel and BvS came out. I’m a strong defender of both, and the films being of a quality stronger than most criticisms of them is one hill I will gladly die upon.

If you do go into a rewatch at some point, be sure to watch the director’s cut - like most director’s cuts, it adds a lot more to the story, but definitely further drives home the “v” in BvS.

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