Channel Moderating issue

@Kadenthistime has brought forth a legit issue with channel moderation, several bytes worth, i will post the first one here but I urge everyone to have a look.

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I would recommend u let him know and u too to reach out at hello@byte.co or dm one of the byte staff about this here. because having issues with mods are something I think they are trying to make sure never happens as they are just testing this at the moment.

@Ren

i’d also suggest emailing community@byte.co about this👍🏻

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i had a chance to review this and spoke with our team. i’m sorry for what i’m sure will be an unpopular opinion, but i stand by our decision. the video in question (https://byte.co/@kadenthistime/D8NvJsEFrEr) was not appropriate for the /horror channel. while i understand the motivation in the sense that it’s a “sequel” to another /horror byte (https://byte.co/@kadenthistime/GImjA0TQl5X), that doesn’t change our position that the content in this particular byte indicates that it wasn’t an appropriate categorization

we moderate channels based on subject matter so that in most cases people who follow those channels will see what they expect to see. while we’re not perfect at it, we are getting better, and it is far better than the unmoderated approach we took at launch. removing topical moderation would take us right back to that approach, and channels would lose relevance

if we get to the point where we do user created and community moderated channels (to be clear, we’re not sure about it yet), then you will be free to create channels with your own rules and moderate how you see fit

finally, i would ask that we be careful when we’re using the term censorship. recategorizing posts for relevance is not censorship. the more we throw that word around the less power it wields when it actually needs to be wielded. this is true not just on byte, but everywhere on the internet

please continue to speak up if you see questionable moderation. we can always get better and more clear about it

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Yeah seeing the video this really does not belong in /horror. Horror is things like Jason parodies, movie scenes from horror etc. Even though this might have a horror aspect to it the subject is still not for that. Like me if I make a funny gaming video or a joke about gaming it is still gaming even if I added a bit of humor or other aspects of other categories.

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understandable for that specific byte but this may be situational. That character he created is intended for the “horror” channel but that specific byte was not very “horror”. Sorry @Kadenthistime I’m gonna have to agree with dom and take this as a learning experience.

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I think an important question was raised here though. How do you reach out to new audiences, if you’re given the option to post to the audience you think is appropriate, and someone on the other end that isn’t the bulk or even the target audience decides before it gets to the public that it’s not worthy. This to me sounds defeating. Why is “other” the only place for new, different, or out of the box ideas?

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because the channels need to be relevant for folks to find them useful

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People seem to agree with me somewhere so there’s a disconnect happening here. Not trying to hurt you, but that reply seemed heated.
There’s a distinct difference between moderation and catagorization, and stunting your creators freedom. What does intention mean? If you intend to be funny and your moderator doesn’t laugh, does that get you kicked off the comedy page?

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I don’t disagree that this is a good question.

Would be a cool feature if you could select a backup channel, or if it had to be recategorized you could choose what channel.

Comedy is a genre, but it’s also a mode that a lot of us operate under.

Perhaps a ‘creepy’ category could be a good sister to the /horror category like /absurd would be to /funny.

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Those are definitely great channel ideas! You can now suggest more channels if one does not fit your content no in the explore section but it’s not guaranteed as the team has soo many requests I bet.

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I understand what you’re saying about my Byte being inappropriately categorized as horror, but I still very strongly disagree. The manual removal of my video from the channel was brought to my attention by people asking me why I posted it in “other” and not “horror”, so I know I am not alone in this belief.

I posted this Byte to the horror channel, not only because it’s a sequel to past bytes. I’d even say that’s the least of the reasons. In the Byte, my character, who has shown himself to be a threat, is wielding a knife. He is standing eerily and unnaturally still, and his body is glitching back and forth. The music used is the Pokemon Lavender Town theme, which has rumors surrounding it stating that it causes people to hurt themselves. The text tells us other ways that he is a threat, as well as some “redacted/unknown” ways that we don’t know of. And finally he looks silly, which, coupled with everything else stated above, gives the whole video a feeling of disconnect between the visuals and the feeling it gives off, which makes the viewer uncomfortable. These are all common elements found in horror media.

Also, art is subjective. I have no issue at all with the idea of having channel moderators. It is important to keep the channels on theme so people don’t abuse the system, and so abusive and obscene material is removed, as I stated in part 2 of my rant. Also so that they can be useful to the people who follow them. What I do have an issue with is having my Byte, which employs many elements of the horror genre, removed because it isn’t “horror enough”. One party’s “horror” is not the standard for everyone.

I believe that the moderation of the channels is too restrictive. Keeping a channel on theme is one thing. Removing bytes from a channel that the creator chooses because they’re not a perfect/near perfect example of what the Byte team feels that channel should be is a very different thing. When you remove bytes from channels because they’re a little different than the cookie cutter formula for a channel, it chokes the app. No one will see new ideas. No one will be able to share a different vision of an established idea. There will be no growth.

I agree that I used the word “Censorship” inappropriately and flippantly, and for that I apologize. I still do not appreciate, however, that my Byte, which I still believe falls within the boundaries of the subjective “horror” genre, was manually hidden from audience it was meant for.

It is possible for the channels to not be so selective and exclusive, and still stay on theme and be useful to Byte users.

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I think a solution is having both positive and negative moderation. Right now we only have moderation that rejects bytes from a category. I would like to see moderators add bytes to categories as well.

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Obligatory I’d rather see mods on the forums, and for the channels I’d rather see a curator type mentality.

The idea being the curator is looking for things to add to their channel and to highlight. I’ve posted a ton of stuff that fits easily into multiple channels. I stress over is this /funny, gaming, art, animation, edits etc.
I get the idea of not letting us post in multiple channels. It’s easily abused.

But if you trust the curators enough to remove things that are “not /____ enough” why not give them the ability to add things that are a great example of /____?

I’m all for removing obviously inappropriate or things that don’t make the rules. But I’ve already been told a lot of my stuff doesn’t look like OC and would have been removed.

At the very least temporarily flag it for discussion with the creator.

This would put it in a limbo status, and the creator can discuss it with the curator.

OR:

Allow creators in good standing the opportunity to ask for appeal maybe? Sort of like a Challenge Flag in football. The creator will be notified of the relocation to /whatever, and they have the option to flag it for a challenge. They can make their case, and if it’s approved they still have the challenge. If not approved, they lose the challenge flag for x days or possibly Y # of posts?

This would prevent the protest on every single byte someone posts, and would give them some reason to really think if they want to challenge or not.

Just a thought or two.

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Hahah sometimes I wish that would happen! It would be kinda funny (because it’s a little messed up)! But humor is subjective. Along with a lot of different categories, as others have mentioned.
Also, I think /funny is too broad of a category, a lot of people upload to it. Causing some of the content to get lost among the better known peeps. Takes some scrolling to see new faces. So I like the idea of subcategories to reach people with a different sense of humor, horror, etc.

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I would have to agree. Comedy is such a broad category that it almost makes a Sub-categorization necessary for content creators to reach their audiences.

Loops for example would be a simple and broad category, but comedy and or horror don’t fit into this broad categorization. They’re too subjective for this generalization. Just my thoughts on it.

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Again, this comes down to too much subjectivity in the determination of what constitutes as “fitting” within the channel “guidelines”. Looking in the /horror channel “rules”, all it says is “nothing too explicit or gory”. Kaden’s Byte was subtle and included not only thematic horror elements, but followed the rules to a tee - and still, it got booted for “not fitting”?

If moderators are going to be stringent on what posts stay and what posts go, the “rules” need to literally be rewritten. None of this subjective adverb nonsense. To piggyback on what someone said above: with the way these moderations have developed, when I create and post a comedic Byte, I often have a momentary pause before assigning it to the /funny channel. Why? Because I’m aware that what I find funny isn’t everyone’s proverbial cup of tea; however, as that is currently the only “comedy”-related channel, and I would like a modicum of exposure for the hard work and fun I had in creating the post, it’s my only option. Thankfully, the moderators have either deemed those posts funny or have seen the attempt at humor and have graciously let the posts slide under the channel’s banner, but other users who put in the same amount of time and effort (and even more so from what I’ve seen) are having their posts booted without initial consideration as to the rationale behind the placement in the first place.

To Kaden’s point, this is not how you develop creators and inspire them to be involved with the product you’re looking to establish to a larger base. Maybe “censorship” was a “harsh” term to use, but it’s definitely stifling to the creative process to have an idea in mind, a place in which to put it, the time with which to create it, only to at the end of it all have it thrown to what is (even though there is, politically-speaking, a “trash” channel) essentially the garbage pile. And that’s how people see it, regardless of the “other” titling.

We work within a confined medium and creators with ideas adapt to what the medium allows. If you think of a “horror” series that is going to span several posts over an extended period of time, where within the framing of the series does the content constitute as “horror”? I see people commenting that Kaden’s post is “in the middle” of what he’s established, and that could be used as “reasoning” for its getting bumped, but it’s an establishing post about a character within what is essentially a horror story; I feel, even if it was the initial post in the series, it would still get the boot because “it’s not considered ‘horror’”. So, what: the only posts that get on the horror page are out of sequence, one-shot ideas that will, at some point, become carbon copies of each other because of the medium’s limitations? There are creators, like Kaden, who see the power of longevity and the best way to produce that is to create an expansive narrative… and that’s what is being stifled because of the ideas of “moderation”.

I mean, if I posted a #ByteBookClub of Stephen King novels to the /horror channel, complete with black-and-white filter and maybe a filter of blood dripping down the borders, I know it would get booted from the channel because “that’s now what [we’re] looking for”. Well, be more specific on “what [you’re] looking for” because right now it’s very murky and subjective. And, for what it’s worth, is creating an experience that can backfire and alienate those who are truly passionate about making this application succeed further than “being better than TikTok”.

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